Community Volunteers & Beta

[Torquemada Coteaz]

* Edited for Content *

[Ilairon]

Regarding beta testing, it seems a bit odd to restrict fansite administration and moderation from taking part in beta when fansite members have no strings attached; if the idea behind restricting fansite admins and mods from beta is because they could easily leak information from Beta, intentionally or not, due to their forum status then a regular forum member could do the exact same thing. I don't think fansite staff should expect a free pass in, but they should be on the same footing as everyone else. Fair game, and all.

[Teuf]

Archangel, i do agree with you. But there is the most schizophrenic part of all:

People from fansites who traveld to the Fansitegathering got a Betakey - not far in the future, they are playing Warhammer Online in this very moment.

Where is the logic? Why are they better then the others? You cannot say: "Ah, it's the administrator who went to Fairyfax, he deserves an instant betakey" - lot's of sites didn't send the administrator but any moderator (nothing against moderators), just like the fansite i know. But guess what, the Administrator's guild was selected and got betakeys - but he isn't allowed to play with his guildmates and with his staffmate.

Richard, if you would please explain that to me.

What are you afraid of? Fansites are not allowed to post information falling under the NDA - so no negative reviews (that are your fansites, the worst review they can write is "that game is so awesome, couldn't stopped playing"). People working on Fansites are hardcore fans (no offense to anyone who thinks he is a hardcore fan too), they wouldn't sell their betakey on eBay, they would spent hours and hours with bug searching to make this game the best ever released.
Why would you ban fansitemembers from this betaversion (if they get in later, it has to do something with the gameversion)? Are you afraid that they all quit their job with comments like: "TIhs GamE SuxxX, g0nn4 plaY VanguArD, LOLOL, LOOs3rs"?
If you really think that, then you have made one of the worst games ever if your fansites would leave you because of your betaversion. Go, stop the delevopement and burn the office down because this game will not be great without 3 more years of developement.

Or do you think you do them a favor? Richard, come on, it's nice to tell them: "you gonna see a very very great version" - but it sucks to tell them: "no no, you are not allowed to enter beta with all the others now, i told you about the great version the others will see too". Yeah, you should see the faces and comments from the fansitestaffmembers all around the world - they are sooo thankful that they cannot use the key, they have won like any other here. Oh, and you cannot say, we want to be sure that all of the fansitemembers get in or won't get a double key - just let them give you their betaregistration account - and you have the overview, who is in beta right now, who will get in with guildbeta and who will get presskeys.

Hm or do you think if one of their staffmember is in beta, the others will force him to tell them everything he knows or even share the key without beeing bound to the NDA? Every one who has a betakey registers to this forum to post: "Lool, I been Beta, lololol". They can squeeze them out too if they really want. Now, their GUILDMATES are in beta. Do you think, they won't talk to them? Do you think, they will stop listening while the guild is fighting over teamspeak?

The fansites are loosing a lot of their best members. Get in now but quit the job and have nothing to do with Mythic anymore but have fun with your friends, or work hard like before and hear in 1 month: "Oh, sorry guys. We just discovered some more bugs, you need to wait a bit more, but in 2 month, we will put elves in our betaversion, haven't you heard, ELVES? HOW COOL IS THAT?"

A community is nothing without fanforums and fansites. So you know what will happen, if you kick your fansitestaff around like that. Don't treat them like small children.
Are you afraid, that they will gather information like the one needed for databases? Just tell them: "this isn't the final version, we will change the whole skill/item/whatever system very soon" and they will continue playing, enjoying the game and will use this energy to make their fansite even better - without breaking NDA or something.

If you don't trust your fansites, why do you trust 14 years old kids, who you invited to your beta a while ago?

Sorry Richard and all the other EA Mythic guys around, but do you really think about what you do? Take off your funny big sunglasses and explain the things above to YOUR community and to YOUR community volunteer!

[Garthilk]

Teuf,

I think you are way off base. If you were to go back and look at my post I think you'd have a better sense of the issues. There's no reason to try and invent, or makeup issues that don't exist.

[Teuf]

Originally Posted by Garthilk

There's no reason to try and invent, or makeup issues that don't exist.

Ok, tell me what i madeup what i invented and what wasn't true. You may do this via PM or via forumpost. I am really looking forward to our conversation.

[Richard_Mythic]

People please, remove the tin foil hats, there's no conspiracy, there's no evil agenda to stab people in the back or anything. Speculation and allegations aren't going to accomplish anything but get people riled up and angry about something that REALLY isn't an issue at all.

Fansite people will be getting in. They have guaranteed slots to get in with. Knowing that I'm honestly surprised any of them WANT to take one of the VERY limited number of slots their guild will be receiving for themselves. Were I in their place, there's no way I'd be so greedy as to take one of the guild's slots when I knew I was guaranteed to get in either way.

This isn't about who deserves or doesn't deserve to get in. This ISN'T a new process, it's been done this way by most MMO companies who have ever had a game in beta. I know, I worked for sites before beta, both a major network site and smaller, independently run fansites. I've been in their shoes, I've watched my guild get into beta before me. I've even had the pleasure to attend a fansite event, JUST like the one we just hosted, where I was awarded a beta invite before the rest of the fansite folks got in.

Are we saying the ones we let in deserve it more than anyone else? Not at all. Trust me, had it been even remotely feasible I'd have had every single staff member of every single fansite at the recent fansite event. We could only invite a limited number of people, so it was limited to 1-2 reps from each site we chose.

The rest of the fansite people will be getting in, with guaranteed slots. I can't give an exact date, because we all know as soon as I do that something goes wrong and we have to delay it then everyone calls me a liar. But it won't be "the last group to get in" or any of the other conspiracy theories floating around up there. I don't even want to use any specific words like "soon" because everyone has different definitions for any word along those lines. I will say it won't be long and I don't think the people in question will be disappointed when they do get in, beyond the obvious disappointment that they're not getting in at the exact same time as their friends and guildies.

[Wyrmtongue]

Man. I can't believe how much of an issue this has become. If this is the only thing in your life that you have to get so upset and worked up over, think yourself lucky - I wish it were the case for me.

I'm sure every hard working fansite bod will get their due, hell, everyone's going to get to play eventually.

[parabola]

I don't think I agree with the reason this thread was created.

Your beef with the community beta slots is with Mythic, not the community. By creating this thread you're basically looking like you're trying to get back at Mythic for their policy. You also come across and a bit whiny.

I know that is not your intention, but thats what this looks like.


I don't think that theres any room to complain either. I am certain Mythic has a specific invite schedule, where they will only want x amount of people in beta. I am also sure they have a set time for Press beta. So while you may think it is unfair, your best bet is to just deal with it and wait so you don't come across as someone whos crying for attention because they haven't gotten their way.

I would just be happy you are guaranteed a slot. Many people here will never be in the beta until the end, if at all.

The last thing I wanted to mention is the purpose of beta. The purpose of beta isn't for a free look at the game. Its about testing the combat, checking for bugs, making sure there is nothing drastically wrong with the game. Its not a leisure activity, although it can be for some people. Its not the most fun gaming experience you'll have right from the get go. Every beta thats ever existed always starts out like that. So if Mythic has decided they have enough members to test x stage right now... Its not because they hate you, its for other reasons. If you really understood the reasoning behind beta at an early stage you shouldn't have to make a thread like this.

[Teuf]

Originally Posted by Richard_Mythic

Fansite people will be getting in. They have guaranteed slots to get in with. Knowing that I'm honestly surprised any of them WANT to take one of the VERY limited number of slots their guild will be receiving for themselves. Were I in their place, there's no way I'd be so greedy as to take one of the guild's slots when I knew I was guaranteed to get in either way.

The 3-4 guilds i know got a betakey for every member they have. So now they have a key for their little sister, but not for the fansitemember. Great.

Originally Posted by Richard_Mythic

I will say it won't be long and I don't think the people in question will be disappointed when they do get in, beyond the obvious disappointment that they're not getting in at the exact same time as their friends and guildies.

Come on, i cannot imagine any fansitemember who worked for nearly 2 years for EA Mythic and the community, who wouldn't take his spot in the guildbeta right now (you even cannot say any date when they would get in via presskeys - great motivation).
They will play and hope that nobody blows their cover. If that would happen, you would ban them from beta, maybe the guild straight with them. You criminalize your biggest fans. THAT is my biggest concern.

I understand your point that they could remember things when they write articles (in 8 months when the NDA is gone - they need a good memory for that one) that only were in the his small part of the beta. I understand why you give out the presskeys when the game is ready to show it to the gamemags (and to the fellow fansitemembers, who were sharing keys from their friends, always with one leg in prison because they are the biggest fans you can find on the planet and cannot wait.) - but I will never understand, why you don't allow the lucky fansitemembers who have their key in their mailbox to play with it. There are a lot of fansitemembers in beta right now - YOU invited them. But the 10-20 fansitemembers worldwide who got a key by luck are not allowed? C'mon.....

Originally Posted by parabola

The last thing I wanted to mention is the purpose of beta. The purpose of beta isn't for a free look at the game. Its about testing the combat, checking for bugs, making sure there is nothing drastically wrong with the game. Its not a leisure activity, although it can be for some people. Its not the most fun gaming experience you'll have right from the get go. Every beta thats ever existed always starts out like that. So if Mythic has decided they have enough members to test x stage right now... Its not because they hate you, its for other reasons. If you really understood the reasoning behind beta at an early stage you shouldn't have to make a thread like this.

Do you think the fansiteguys will sit in the startarea an moan about WAR looking like WoW?
Damnit, these guys are WORKING with and for the game all their freetime, why do you expect them to only enjoy beta? They will work ingame just like they work in their forums/fansites.

[Kapko]

* Edited for Content *

[Richard_Mythic]

Originally Posted by Teuf

Every european guild i have heard of got a betakey for every member they have. So now they have a key for their little sister, but not for the fansitemember. Great.

Come on, i cannot imagine any fansitemember who worked for nearly 2 years for EA Mythic and the community, who wouldn't take his spot in the guildbeta right now (you even cannot say any date when they would get in via presskeys - great motivation).
They will play and hope that nobody blows their cover. If that would happen, you would ban them from beta, maybe the guild straight with them. You criminalize your biggest fans. THAT is my biggest concern.

I understand your point that they could remember things when they write articles (in 8 months when the NDA is gone - they need a good memory for that one) that only were in the his small part of the beta. I understand why you give out the presskeys when the game is ready to show it to the gamemags (and to the fellow fansitemembers, who were sharing keys from their friends, always with one leg in prison because they are the biggest fans you can find on the planet and cannot wait.) - but I will never understand, why you don't allow the lucky fansitemembers who have their key in their mailbox to play with it. There are a lot of fansitemembers in beta right now - YOU invited them. But the 10-20 fansitemembers worldwide who got a key by luck are not allowed? C'mon.....

See, now you're just trolling, so I'll respond one last time and be done with this thread. Every single fansite admin out there knows my door is always open if they want to talk about this or anything else.

No one is being criminalized here. No one is being "banned" from beta. You keep throwing these words and phrases around like you're not even reading what I'm posting. They have GUARANTEED slots. VERY few other people can say that.

As far as how GOA chose to hand out their slots, I have no control over nor anything to do with that. I'm speaking purely on behalf of the NA guilds and NA fansites. If they chose to give guilds large amounts of slots to get the entire guild in, that's their prerogative. I chose to give each guild less slots to get more guilds in and have a wider variety of gameplay styles. Each NA guild got roughly enough slots to let in 10-20% of their members.

Anyway, the point is, they're getting in, not at the end of beta, well before then. If any of THEM would like to discuss it with me further, they can contact me.

[Petzen]

Originally Posted by Richard_Mythic

They have GUARANTEED slots. VERY few other people can say that.

Exactly what I was thinking. I can’t really see the big deal. It is hard work running a fan site sure, and the mods get rewarded with a guaranteed beta slot. Seems pretty fair to me. That some of the mods then are so impatient that they take one of their guild's beta spots in stead of waiting for their guaranteed spot seems a bit odd to me. (Rather egocentric really : / ) I know people want to play, but its still only early beta and the game surely still needs lots of polish so joining beta now probably won't be as interesting as joining beta in 2 month, perhaps.

Just my two cents anyway...

[illukar]

Originally Posted by Belatucadros

If someone had come on here and said "oh boo hoo I'm a DAOC player and I haven't yet been chosen" everyone would jump on his face.

Or "I'm a veteran newsletter sub AND baltimore winner and I'm still not in..."

and I routinely see those people told to just wait it out.

The second the person's name is green or that creepy orange we're supposed to step aside?

So yeah I called him out, and he keeps trying to play the high ground. I hope he feels as silly as he looks when press beta rolls around.

But it's a different situation: because Arch, etc, are contributing to a fansite they have been taken _out_ of the random pool of beta sign-ups and deliberately denied beta? That goes well beyond 'random person boohooing about not getting in yet'. He's annoyed not because he didn't get in - but because his guild _did_ get in and he's been told he's not allowed in with them...because he helped out.

When that happened to me with Vanguard, I was indescribably furious. I wasn't asking for a free pass, I just wanted the same chance in the random pool as everyone else. You don't go into a community site expecting free handouts, but you sure as hell don't expect a slap in the face for your hard work either.

That said, these kind of stupid situations are usually resolved. The last thing the devs want is to alienate their fans. But I do wish they'd clear their timing up a little more so community contributors didn't have to feel kicked in the guts.

[Garthilk]

Sorry guys,

Going to have to close this one. I kindly asked for folks to stick to topic issues rather than complain. Sorry but I'm going to lock this one.

Locking.